I wish I had a dime for every positive comment about lousy music in this town. What the hell is wrong with the music scene in Denver?

jeez blaze, hate jam bands much? i thought this review was pretty even-handed. there’s tons of good music in this town. no one ever said STS9 was the best example.

I’m confused, Blaze. Did you think I was positive in my review?

i have a question for you?? why would you be at an STS9 show and not expect the lights to be utterly ridiculous, the sound to be electronic, and the crowd to be filled with hippies? STS9 is a HUGE part of the jam scene now, so it was completely ignorant on your part to show up at the Fillmore expecting anything less.

Ignorant? I was well informed about STS9 before the show.
I expected all of those things and still I was not impressed.

Blaze…if I had a dime for every person who told me Bob Dylan and The Beatles made lousy music, I’d buy everthing they ever did. The only thing I see wrong with the music scene in Denver the fact that some people don’t give others enough credit for the things they think are positive. If someone has something good to say about a lousy band, long live their happiness.

I’m sure everyone has heard the arguement that you can’t group all jam bands together. That is exactly what you did in this article. Very few “jam bands” sound the same and often have different crowds. STS9′s musical range is givin credit, but they have no “cohesive sound and lack strident musical themes”? It’s a pretty fair review however I find it hard that no credit is givin for the bands musical talent, especially the drummer. Even if one is sober the music sounds good because they have talent. The review talks just as much about the lights and crowd then the actual music played, and not one song title is mentioned. To critical about the scene? Are you going to review Mandy Moore too?

I’ll give you credit for the lack of song titles. I delayed the publishing of this article by a day while I waited for somebody to publish a set list. Even at the show I spent a good time asking around if anybody knew the name of a song – nobody could tell me! Hence “the lack of cohesiveness and strident musical themes.” If even die-hard STS9 fans can’t name a song then the band isn’t commited enough to a song to let it alone. Eventually the artist, like an author needs to put it to print and stop changing it. The songs changing from night to night, based on how the band feels, a trait of ALL jam bands, does not signify greatness or genius; rather, to me it signifies a certain kind of selfishness of the musicians, playing to their own whims rather than a shared experience with the audience.

Regarding song titles, maybe you were asking the wrong people like the 16 yr olds, or people to under the influence. I was there along with some friend that have been going to STS9 shows for over five years. They could name almost all of the songs (I believe some were new). I think the problem is a lot of people don’t know STS9′s song’s well because they recently started listing to them. Moreover one has to really listen to STS9 songs to match them with a title because they don’t have lyrics. If you went to a symphony or a jazz concert, I doubt many people could name the songs unless they really knew the music. Also STS9 played at songs (Instantly, Arigato etc.) that any true fan would know. One last thing “jam bands” do commit to a song, and then build on it at shows. For people that know the songs that is where the musical creativity and intellenge of the band comes in. Because they have the body of the song and improvise around it, often based on how the crowd is responding. People travel the country to see the same band becuase every night is different and a shared experience with the band. The one thing “jam bands” are not are selfish musicans, if they were they wouldn’t have such a loyal fan base (Widespread panic has been around since ’85). And they tour constantly with little air play, no music videos but sale out all the time, they play music for the sake of music not money or fame.

Yo loren speer i would like to hear what kinds of music you listen to, i bet you are like every one else in this world you just listen to what is popular rather than to what i call and most other jam band lovers call “good” music. Also you may be thinking about the fact that a jam band concert is just a bunch of
hippies who go to a concert to get high and listen to “groovy” tunes; but a jam band concert is a place in life where you are surrounded by nice people who will not judge you by the way you look or the way you act. A jam band concert is one of the only places where you are accepted and respected by everyone. Once you step foot into a jam band concert there is a positive vibe due to all of the positive energy glowing from the hearts of the crowd.

Second of all the improvisation of the jam band scene is not only reserved to jam bands it is used in jazz blues and clasical, infact Betoven did the same thing as many jam bands today. So by saying that “ALL jam bands are musicals idiots” is like saying Betoven is a musical idiot.

Also Jamming to the general guidelines of a song is not “a lack of cohesiveness and strident musical themes.” it is rather a way to keep things interesting through the unexpected twists and turns of the musical structure throughout the song.

NOT ALL PEOPLE WHO LISTEN TO JAM BANDS ARE HIPPIE STONER ACID TRIPPERS AND I FIND IT IGNORANT TO MAKE THAT GENERALIZATION

“Eventually the artist, like an author needs to put it to print and stop changing it. The songs changing from night to night, based on how the band feels, a trait of ALL jam bands, does not signify greatness or genius; rather, to me it signifies a certain kind of selfishness of the musicians, playing to their own whims rather than a shared experience with the audience.”

… you’re idea that improvisation is “selfish” is pretty unique, not one I’ve ever heard, and certainly not one shared by fans of jam band music. To us it actually means exactly the opposite. It means that the artists have gone out of their way to craft a new and unique performance for every live show. And the technical viruosity of many of all the most popular jam bands tells us that they weren’t lazy about it. Fans can see their show several nights in the same tour and know that each night they’re going to get what they feel is their money’s worth with a unique and fresh show. On the internet they can find several to dozens of versions of their favorite songs for download, usually at the encouragement of the band. After all, the definition of a “jam band” is one which focuses on live performance with musical improvisation and long sets of music that crosses genres.

So you know, I wouldn’t go to a Justin Timberlake concert because even though I respect him technically as a performer, I don’t appreciate his music (which I see as shallow, emotionless, and 1 dimensional), I don’t respect that there’s a very good chance he’s lipsynching and not actually performing musically, and I would be incredibly uncomfortable in his crowd of preteen and teenage girls and their parent chapperones. So for then for me to go ahead and publish a negative review based on my already-held subjective prejudices would make about as much sense as what you did here, writing a negative review of a jam band for their improvisation, eclectic inspiration, and drugged out followers.

Charlie,
Thanks for the compliment. To be thought of as unique, certainly makes this old boy feel special; and if you think that your jam bands are crafting something special for you every night, well, that’s just what you think.

I think they’re like a shotgun, shooting at the flock of genres flying around out there, hoping at least to nail one, sometimes nailing one and wounding another, sometimes wounding a whole bunch.

They’ve simply opted for the shotgun effect instead of subtlety and specificity. When I go to see a band I look for one thing. Do they do what they do well? If a band nails it with out a doubt, I’m happy. With jam bands I don’t know what their doing. I don’t know if they are doing it well. I can’t tell if a song has changed from show to show. I have to judge them by that one performance. If I think that they are just trying to muddy-up my feel for the show with this shotgun effect I am entitled to that. If my review didn’t meet your standards you fail to acknowledge my perspective. I write about bands. I am part of Denver’s music scene. I even work at a local club. I see bands two or three nights a week. Music is my life right now. I am harsh with jam bands because they ignore this musical tradition. They drew the line in the sand, Charlie, not me. This is just the view from the other side.

Dear Loren,
How is it that you can even entitle yourself to a place in the “sand” that is the STS9 scence. If the music you listen to is on a beach, then Sound Tribe’s shows are located as far inland as possible. The jam scene is something very important to some of us, and your complete insult and disrespect to the genre is unwarranted. . . Your inability to decipher the band’s improvisation is nobody’s fault but your own, and your impatience, as well as your INCOMPREHENSIVE grouping of the entire “Jam Scene”, into one scene, is completely ridiculous. There is so much more to music, ESPECIALLY live music, that requires a change from normalcy, not sticking to it.

Wes,
Put down the bong. Breath some fresh air. Now try to put yourself in my shoes for a moment, and reread what you just wrote to me.
I don’t even think “incomprehensive” is a word. Maybe you were searching for “incomprehensible” because that would make more sense, -that you were too stoned and filled with pride and hatred over this person’s (me) rational and fair, albeit unfavorable review of your favorite band that his (my) succint and intelligent conclusion was incomprehensible in your state of rage.
Right?

My music is on the beach???
What? I’m lost.

Normalcy?
STS9 was about the most boring, normal thing I’ve seen in awhile. Why don’t you go to SXSW in Austin this year, go to every free show they offer. There is literally thousands of bands from all over the world. Share a cheap hotel with your friends. Then tell me what STS9 is doing that hasnt been done and done better by many.

Expand your horizons beyond this the live-rave jam of STS9.

Lorin,
first of all i find it very disrespectful to stereo type and critisize some one because they have a different opinion than you. Also i find it very amusing how you do not display any other perspectives of the STS9 show other than yours. This ignorance contridicts your previous statement “you were too stoned and filled with pride and hatred over this person’s (me) rational and fair, albeit unfavorable review of your favorite band that his (my) succint and intelligent conclusion was incomprehensible in your state of rage.”

I am not saying my opinion is right neither am i saying that i agree with you but making fun of some will NOT get anything done. It is also a false assumption to think that all jam band followers are “stoners” I dont smoke pot yet i still enjoy the jam band scene and listen to jam bands along with: Jazz, Clasical, Rock, Hip-Hop, Electronic and many other “main stream” genres

– You can disagree with some one but DO NOT critisize some one for their opinions or anything else for that matter–

Also jam bands do not “ignore” musical traditions, improvization has been present for centurys.

STS9 use computers as crutches and really aren’t that good at playing real instruments at all. It is a fare review of this concert- and sad thing is, it is a good review for just about any of this band’s shows in recent memory.

STS9 was much better 7-9 years ago when actual instruments were used at shows and not pre-recorded samples that lack any type of imagination.

Wow. This is a truly awful review. I’m sorry you didn’t approve of the crowd. Yes, kids do take drugs at shows, this is not new. I’m glad you don’t like sts9, the less people like you at the shows, the better!

Hi Loren,

I have to say, I think your review is way off base. You very clearly have a bias against Jamband music, not to mention you seem to be largely ignorant of the genre. STS9 is much different than, for example, Umphrees McGee, Widespread Panic, Grateful Dead. And I think that the the people you asked didn’t know the names of the songs because Sound Tribe, especially in the last two years, has been picking up many new fans. What about your friend who is a huge Sound Tribe fan? Why didn’t he know the songs?

I don’t like coconut – does that mean that people who do like coconut have something wrong with their tastebuds? Of course not. Similarly, your bias against this kind of music skews your vision in what amounts to a sub-par review of the show. No doubt there were many presumptuous, self-rightous folkies digging in to Bob Dylan when he played at the Newport Folk Festival, all of whom turned out to be wrong.

Just my .02.

Josh

Sorry, I only made it as far as Nick’s first comment and then I couldn’t read on. Is it the hippie stoner thing that makes STS9 fans unable to spell or use grammar properly? Maybe they’re blinded by the lights.

Nothing brings me more joy than to watch idiots get all riled up. Dude… jams are meant for the basement.

loren.

ive been listening to this band for less than a year. i could name all but the 2 songs they debuted less than a month prior. perhaps the reason no one around you could name songs was because

1. they couldnt hear you
2. the songs dont have lyrics… makes recalling the title difficult, especially under the influence
3. your friends who call themselves fans, probably are just bandwagon fans, who have gotten into their newer electronic sound

and if you wanted to find a setlist, the bands forums (http://thelowdown.org/) wouldve been a good place to start. since people at the show text in the setlist, as its being played

get over hating on the jamband scene and stop thinking top 40 hits is where its at. its the only scene left not producing crappy emo screamo/fake punk/cheesy wanna be thug gangta beats

and one last thing. it doesnt take drugs to appreciate improvisation. more like good musical taste. ever heard of JAZZ?!!?!? 100% improv. good music too

I would say this review is totally bias from the get-go. I myself have been a fan of their music since I first saw them in 2003. Maybe instead of classifying the band based on who watches them, you review the music. When I go to a show, the same things disgust me to see, but I don’t let that one moment dictate my whole night. I have seen them plenty of times, while sober, and had an excellent time dancing like a hippy. I would like to point out that STS9 is not exactly an ‘improv’ band. You really need to know the songs before you can just call something jam improv; then maybe you will know “what they are doing”. And SXSW? Are you kidding me? “

Wow. People are still following this thread. I must have touched a nerve. Many of you in the comments have suggested that I brought a biased opinion to my criticism, which is definitely true, however if you read my article carefully, you will see that I brought valid points to the discussion. Mainly, I attempted to refer to tradition and the talent of the band as a means of critiquing their performance. I won’t take the time to repeat them here. But I will say that I put great thought into my reasoning, and attempted to shed my bias for an analytical perspective. Regardless if my bias influenced my stance, I stand by the conclusion that I came to because my conclusion has a completeness to it. It’s logical and itself is open to critique. Bias has a lot to do with the nature of criticism, but in the end it is the soundness of the argument that matters. What I said makes sense in a broader perspective of music in general. I believe I presented a valid critique of STS9 and their cult of following; something that I felt needed to be said. Many people in the comments section have made equally biased statements about me and my critique while revealing their own opinions of the band, but the difference is that their opinions were not backed-up by a coherent and logical argument. Instead all I saw was angry petitions for why I should like STS9, or that my opinion was bias, or even frivolous accusations about me. Clearly, it is evident that people like this band, and are willing to accuse a journalist of shoddy journalism to defend their preference, but before you type those words down think about what you are about to say.
“The truth does not change based on your ability to take it” Flannery O’Conner

It is not a thread it is an article meant to be read, so naturally people would stumble upon this piece of opinion and want to comment on it no matter how long ago it was published. I think this struck a nerve in the reviewer more than anyone.

What is worse?

a) Overly defensive fans of a band/scene/genre who feel threatened by one negative review of their band/scene/genre?

or

b) Overly defensive author of said negative review responding to (almost) all comments.

Or

c) Hitler

i had never seen or listened to STS9 before i saw them at this show. Actually i had never really listened to electronic dance music before but ive never seen a crowd move like it did at the fillmore that night, and it was very fun.
now make fun of my spelling and grammar like you did to the other people because all sts9 fans took too many drugs so they listen to crap music and suck at being educated, right?

Um, yes?

And I would LOOOOOOVE to make fun of you.

Where did you learn to write, Ian!? Dangling modifiers, lack of commas, punctuation, this prose is horrible! You write like our president! Which, if he is a gauge of American grammar you probably deserve more sh#t than I want to spray on you. Good luck in life, Ian. Run for president!

Loren-

This thread/article has accomplished in making me laugh today. Thanks.

You know, it’s funny, I’ve moved beyond the days of trying to convince everyone that STS9 is the greatest band in the world because not everyone is always going to agree.

As someone who is from their hometown (ATL, WHAT?!), I remember seeing them as a three piece funk band in 1998 in front of a crowd of 25 people. I’ve watched them grow into a touring juggernaut, filling up 3000 person venues, for several nights in a row. I’ve watched their musical stylings change/evolve from their funky beginnings, to a more drum n’ bass based sound, to more of a down-tempo, dance-y type of band, to their more hip-hop/electronic/dark style of today. One thing I have never, ever called them was a JAMBAND. They aren’t anywhere near being in the same category as a Leftover Salmon or Widespread Panic. Because they JAM and don’t have lyrics does not mean they should be categorized with the likes of those other bands. If you were to go to a record store, you would find their music filed under ELECTRONIC or DANCE, not ROCK where all of these other bands reside.

I liked the shotgun metaphor that you used, but in the case of STS9, all of these different genres that they are shooting at are all laid over the same sort of dance music sound. In my opinion, and keep in mind this is just an opinion, things are pretty boring when you don’t mix it up a little bit. The musical tradition of sticking to one genre that you referred to sounds boring to me. STS9 does a pretty good job of “nailing” every different type of genre they are shooting at, without compromising their dance music foundation. It makes these different styles all the more interesting when you can turn them into a danceable groove…

I’m not gonna tell you that you are wrong because you don’t like STS9 or that you have an opinion of them that is different from mine. A vast majority of my friends can’t stand STS9. However, I will say that you shouldn’t insult people based on their musical tastes, nor do I believe that the facilitators of this site would be very impressed to know that you are on here insulting the readers. While entitled to your own opinion, you aren’t earning anyone’s respect by being a dick. For someone who “works at a local club” and states that “music is my life” right now, it seems to me like you need to broaden your horizons a little bit instead of listening to the same boring, traditional, straight forward rock n’ roll that’s been made for the past 50 years. And STS9 are pioneers in this genre, so any bands that you go see at SXSW that play this style of music are more than likely influenced by STS9 instead of the opposite. I’ve been to SXSW on two separate occassions, and most of the bands these days that play the livetronica type of music will always list STS9 as an influence.

Good day sir.

thank you geoff.

LOREN SPEER sucks… HAHA… you should be ashamed of yourself; this is your profession?

you’re writing articles for denverpost.com and you still put out a review as ridiculously one sided as this?

i’m sorry you’re used to played out alternative indy bands circulating through the denver area…you shouldn’t have picked a career in which you need to see all perspectives

this leaves the vast majority of people reading your articles not on your side and pissed off

maybe you should come to the other side of that line you decided to draw in the sand and experience something greater…an out of body and mind experience

yes i smoke pot but i also have a phd don’t judge people by the obvious…go take a bong rip and rethink what you want to get out of your job, more importantly your life.

wow u suck loren, i just got to reading this thread and you are a terrible writer.

First of all, I would not consider STS9 a “jamband”. Nor would I consider them electronic, rock, or any other musical mold we like to call genres. Their music is unique and there is nothing wrong with that. Regardless, it is no mystery why the author hates the “jamband scene” that STS9 has been reluctantly grouped into – his first record was “Punk in Drublic” by NOFX. I grew up loving punk rock, ska, and that whole scene until the emo camp ruined things. I still LOVE NOFX (the author “no longer plays their records”, as stated in his review of their show at the Fillmore – his musical tastes are obviously too “mature” for that now), and having musical roots in the punk scene, I can tell you there is an ignorant hatred for “jambands” cast from it. I never understood it, personally, and even though I have always disliked “jamband” music, I never insulted peoples musical tastes, as the author has numerous times in this “concert review” (if you can even call it that) and his comments.

And regarding “musical tradition”: in my own listening I have found that the best music is crafted out of experimentation and deviation from the norm, which means sculpting your own sound instead of trying to copy others. I once heard somebody call it art.

That being said, to anyone reading this, please do not inherit your musical tastes from a music critic, journalist, editor, publication, or television network. Form your own musical tastes based on what sounds good to YOU.

Sound Tribe blows!!!

i went to my first sts9 show this past saturday and can honestly say i enjoyed it more than any concert i have seen, and i have seen hundreds. the only way you can catagorize sts9 into a group with other jam bands is the fact that they have long improvisational sets. i knew most of the songs they played by name and enjoyed the ones i didnt just as much. of all people i believe music enthusiasts should be the most open minded, you sound like a f***ing A.A/N.A counselor the way you talk about drugs in the music scene.

I come from the future and in the future everyone says Soundtribe sucks a fat dick! Clearly Mr. Speer is intelligent and discerning and fair. He could have just said STS9 sucks a fat dick over and over and in different clever ways, but he has a job to do – to explain to you idiots why STS9 sucks a fat dick. Mr. Speer has only failed in one aspect of his review – he didn’t persuade you all to take the jamband dick out of your mouth and stop listening to shitty music.

loren speer, loren buddy… You call yourself a music writer? How about some little unbiased attempts to engage something outside of your particular musical tastes. How can you call yourself a journalist if you psyche yourself up for all these personalized opinions insted of even trying to look at your topic in a balanced light. You wanna learn about music scenes across the nation? Talk to people from each scene insted of dismissing something you don’t like because you feel unconfortable by it. Grow some balls and stop bitching and trying to persuade people out of something YOU don’t like and OBSERVE insted of impulsively reacting!

o yeah and loren, if you feel unconfortable about DRUGS IN ANY MUSIC SCENE, then you definetly SHOULD NOT BE a music writer, critic, reviewer, whatever you are. That’s part of the job man…

Your review completely changed my perspective on all the reviews I’ve read on this website. At first, I wanted to give you some credit, but after reading some of the comments you posted I realized you’re just as immature as the sixteen year-old girls at the concert. Ultimately the review says more about your own subjective experience of the show than it does about the show itself. Yes, of course you have your own bias in your writing– everyone ultimately does. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that. But your perspective on this show stems from an ignorance of improvisational music. Instead of raising a series of questions to gain a better understanding of this music scene given your preconceptions (and thus a more accurate/fair/better/etc. review), you create a number of problematic (arguably incorrect) generalizations about STS9 and jam music in general.

I have a lot more to say, but I have three papers to write tonight so I’ll have to finish my thought at a later time. The irresponsibility and immaturity that you express here really bother me, and I would like to fully address them at a later time. I don’t mean to be antagonistic, but antagonism seems to be the role you have taken against people who appreciate this music, instead of, say, a position where we can come to respect each others’ opinions.

STS9 is a genre defining band with a rabid following. To imply that only people who are drug users can appreciate Sound Tribe’s music is not only laughably wrong, but slanderous to the band and it’s loyal fans.

Why send a writer to a show to hear a genre of music they don’t appreciate, find enjoyable, or are at all familiar with? Like others, I found this live review to be in very poor taste with no context whatsoever.

PS, if the writer had actually done their research, they would have found numerous close connections STS9 has to Colorado which was the first market outside of their home state they experienced success. The band has certainly worked hard to grow their fanbase from maybe a few dozen people at the Fox Theater in Boulder on a weeknight many years ago to selling out the Fillmore and Red Rocks.

Sound Tribe also has one of the industry’s brightest young business managers guiding the band, helping them grow…and guess what, that guy is a very well respected music industry person who lives and works right here in Colorado for a well known promoter. Was any of this mentioned in the story? Of course not…

This whole review showed a poor choice of writer assigned to cover the story, writer’s laziness, and lacked research, and local context – c’mon Denver Post, we expect better!

if you couldnt get song titles from anyone you were asking the wrong people.
and if you went to this show in such a negative state of mind, its no wonder you didnt have a good time. obviously you know what its about. live a little and eat some drugs.

Keep melting my face tribe, if you don’t like it thats fine please don’t go to the shows and bring down the energy (we can tell)

man, you dont have to eat mushroms or acid to enjoy their music. Although, i do ingest these things and prefer to listen to Tribe when using. But i also enjoy them at different times of the day. On my way to school, when i'm sad, or when i'm happy. They have a beat to fit every mood and their music is diverse enough for anybody to adapt to. Maybe you should eat a couple doses and rethink your thoughts on the band.

man, you dont have to eat mushroms or acid to enjoy their music. Although, i do ingest these things and prefer to listen to Tribe when using. But i also enjoy them at different times of the day. On my way to school, when i'm sad, or when i'm happy. They have a beat to fit every mood and their music is diverse enough for anybody to adapt to. Maybe you should eat a couple doses and rethink your thoughts on the band.

wow, this is pretty harsh. I like STS9… but I also do drugs. But I liked them first! LOL

Its not for you, obviously. Don’t go again and you won’t feel “sour.” Sounds like someone already had an opinion on “jam bands” prior to going anyway, so what was the point? Selling out of 10,000+ tickets night after night, and venue after venue tells me there are PLENTY of people who love them and appreciate the talent you somehow missed.  Plus, the times have changed, you can get ecstasy and mushrooms at bible study these days. The drugs aren’t bringing the fans.

I never have eaten mushrooms at an STS9 concert and I have been to 10…You have absolutely no idea what your saying in this article…I can name ever song in a live set when Im listening to it…just because you state your opinion about something does not mean it is factual information…especially when your opinion sucks